Comments on: Feasibility of 4% Grade

By: Thomas C. Hayden III

Thomas C. Hayden III — Tue, 12 May 2020 04:28:14 +0000

In reply to Melton G Gregory. Not even close. A 4 degree grade is a 7% grade. The % is the tangent of the degree.

By: Robert

Robert — Tue, 12 May 2020 04:12:51 +0000

In reply to Melton G Gregory. 4% grade is rise of 4 for 100 horizontal giving an angle of 2.3 degrees(1dp)

By: Melton G Gregory

Melton G Gregory — Tue, 12 May 2020 01:30:56 +0000

I have a question in regards 4% grade. Is a 4% (or other number of %) grade the same as a 4 degree grade? How is % of grade measured against degree of grade? I have wondered about this for several years now with out getting a proper answer. So is % of grade the same as degrees of grade when it come to measure the amount of slope, or is it something else?

By: ROBERT SCHWORM

ROBERT SCHWORM — Mon, 11 May 2020 17:22:07 +0000

A 2% incline is 1 in elevation for every 50 in of horizontal run. A 4% incline is very ambitious for model trains and may require a two engine consist. Other than a logging scene, this is not very prototypical as most grades in the real world run about 1%. The Simple Solution is to take a longboard and play some track on it and elevate it had a 4% rise. Then take the longest train that you will run and place it on this elevation and see if it will pull it up. Of course for real test still have this incline with a curve on it. You lose a lot of pulling power on a curved incline. Hey Shay was built for the logging industry and capable of going up a 10% grade maybe even a little more. If you need ovation within a short distance then have you considered a Switchback? Go up half the length at 2% and switch back and go up the other half at the other 2%. You didn’t mention how high you have to rise on the sink line.

By: David Broad

David Broad — Mon, 11 May 2020 16:49:37 +0000

4% should be fine as long as Diesel or electric locos are used and have all wheels powered. Traction tyres are bad news as they make the track filthy. Incidentally the protocol on UK railways was to measure the distance run against height gained.which is easier to measure. Horizontal distance re height is notional and there is very little difference between the two until you get to 25%.
However most Loco drive RTR Steam locos are hopeless hill climbers and many barely cope with 1 in 75 or 1.3% If you want steamers on a 4% grade you are really looking at very heavy metal bodied locos, if you want to pull more than around 3 freight cars

By: geoff

geoff — Mon, 11 May 2020 16:35:53 +0000

Like Nigel, I have a 4% grade on my 009 narrow gauge layout, and trains can run up it, though they have to be shorter than I would ideally like.

What you should do is pin a length of track to a piece of lumber or something and prop it up at a 4% grade and see if you can run a train up it. I didn’t do that before I put in my 4% grade!

By: Pete

Pete — Mon, 11 May 2020 15:41:58 +0000

Thanks to all for the suggestions. My prototype climbs over 1,000 ft in only 37 miles – surprising for New Jersey, huh. The 2% just did not get the job done – unless someone knows how to stretch a basement! I will now build up the grade based on the confidence you provided.

By: Bruce Webb

Bruce Webb — Mon, 11 May 2020 15:39:05 +0000

oops sorry about calling you dale but your name is Pete

By: Bruce Webb

Bruce Webb — Mon, 11 May 2020 15:32:20 +0000

Dale. My name is bruce from Utah USA and i have a few grades well over 4% as I have a section of Bingham Canyon Copper Mine and the switch backs are much more than 4% pulling up to 11 ore cars with 2 GP40’s loaded or not no problem. So my answer is simple YES YOU CAN.

By: leon zaharis

leon zaharis — Mon, 11 May 2020 13:48:12 +0000

You will need to either cut the number of cars in half or use two locomotives at the head end like the GN did with its boxcab electrics from 1909-1929

By: leon zaharis

leon zaharis — Mon, 11 May 2020 13:41:13 +0000

The Great Northern used pusher steam locomotives along with steam locomotives on the head end of a passenger or freight train climbing from Skykomish, Washington to Wellington, Washington prior to electrifying the line in 1909 to Wenatchee, Washington. They used the boxcab electrics from 1909 until 1929 when the new cascade tunnel was finished and the mountain grade was eliminated. The construction of the New Cascade tunnel would have bankrupted the GN if it did not have the CB&Q hauling iron ore from Minnesota to the ore docks Allouez

By: David Stokes

David Stokes — Mon, 11 May 2020 09:47:02 +0000

I led you all astray, SORRY. The DCC Concept product is called Powerbase.