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Does Track Code Cause Derailments?
Herb asks readers:
“I’ve been having derailment issues and a railroad friend of mine claims locos and cars are less likely to derail on Code 100 track, compared to the code 83 track I am using. Is that true? I don’t want to rip up my track if I don’t have to.”
Robert comments: Readers might also like to comment on any differences they’ve personally observed with code 83 vs code 100 in regards to: track thickness, detailing, short circuits, ease of installation.
19 Responses to Does Track Code Cause Derailments?
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This would be true if the rolling stock/loco wheel flanges are too deep to cope with the smaller rail profile.
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/wheels-metal-or-plastic
There are a lots of reasons for derailments. If it happens at the same spot, then it could be a bad track joiner. Is it the same car, type of car or loco that derails, if so then the wheels might be responsible. There is a slight difference in code 100 and code 83 track and the wheels of the car/loco could be either binding or too loose on the track. Also if there is not enough weight in a car, that can cause derailments. If a glad hand is not the correct distance from the ties, that can cause a derailment. Hope this helps, good luck.
Yes it can . The wheels on your rolling stock and locos can ride up on the ties of the track .
The flang on the wheels .
The only problem you will have is using some old rolling stock on modern track.
Older wheels may have deeper flanges which can jump when going over shallow modern track or points (or switches on the other side of the pond).
Put each of your locos (etc) on a piece of track on a table edge and look very closely (reading glasses on) to see if the wheel flanges clear the sleepers (or ties).
Do the same with the points to see if the wheel flanges clear the frogs (the bits where the rails cross).
Basically in a nutshell, only old rolling stock needs the deeper track.
Track code is not exactly the trouble with derailments. at least not all the time. Overall the track code is the strength of the rail and also the height of the rail. The smaller codes and rails was basically lighter weight it could support in the proto type world. The higher the code also follows the capability of carrying car loads of higher weight. When looking at proto type rail the code 100 would be more of a main line rail and the smaller rail you would find in switch yards. Some say the code 83 is the heavier weight rail. The way you apply it is up to you if you are comparing to proto types rail. As it applies to your model railroad much depends on your wheel flanges on your cars and engines. An example would be does your wheel flanges drag the tops of your ties and what would be the spike area of the tie. Especially older model railroad wheels had deeper flanges and if your rail was not tall enough the wheels would ride on the ties. Should still not have anything to do with derailments. Most likely derailments are coming from poor track work. Uneven tracks and poor straight connections such as connections of flex track will cause much of your problems. I have friends that run nothing but code 83 and they are flawless. But they have good track work. I run code 100 rail and that is what I have always had and if the track work is bad on it too, the derailments will come with it also. Many that use code 83 use it as the size of rail that was laid for the period that their railroad is set. I run a more modern period and to me code 100 is more correct. To go out and actually measure the proto rail would be technically trespassing and dangerous so I have not actually measured the rail. But after watching my friends work code 83 the track is not to blame and you should look at your track work most likely.
from Newman
I thought I would add that many times a car comes with what they call code 83 wheel sets. This mostly means that the flange on the wheel does not stick down as far along the rail. It also means that the width of the wheel may not be as wide sitting on top of the rail. I have noticed this when changing out wheels. I am running 30 foot long trains on code 1oo rail and I am doing great. I am backing into yards with that whole train with good success. So your track work says a lot, shallow curves, good rail connections, good switches, coupler heights, don’t forget the trip wire under the coupler, truck mounted couplers verses body mounted couplers (big difference) Good track work good running trains. A lot of good advise here. It should not make a difference what scale you are in. track work applies to all the scales. from Newman
I changed my thinking, and with my current layout, laid code 83, using transition joiners to match my code 100 turnouts.
I found that the code 83 was far more fragile than code 100, and it was frequently the case, when either drilling the ties for track pin, or even forcing the pins through existing holes, the teis came away from the rails. To repair this, it simply required that the rail be withdrawn and re guided through the clips on the ties.
I have now replaced all code 83 with code 100, and am pleased with the result.
Now it needs to be said, that my initial reason for using 83 was to be more prototypical. However, that said, in NSW Australia, we mostly use 53kg/m rail, with 40 kg/m found mainly on branchlines. On mainline we usually see 60kg/m rail.
So, if we measure the heights of the two extremes, we see 40kg/m rail is around 140mm in heoght, with 60kg/m around 170mm high. If we compare the two in HO gauge, the difference in height is 0.34mm, a difference that is relatively insignificant. I think that we can become too occupied with counting rivets!
Happy modelling – enjoy the hobby!!
Something I have done when laying rail by hand no matter which code rail. Instead of nails to the ties I use GOO GLUE and it holds well to the ties. Use some weight to hold the rail down in place till it dries. We were laying some rail on ties for a rail ring in a turn table track and as we did we ran a hot sodiering iron along the rail and wormed the rail up and speed up the setting of the goo glue. Goo Glue can be cut with a hobby knife to remove the rail if it needs work. I am even using it on wood model railroad car kits and attaching metal cast peices to the wood.
From Newman
Some modern rolling stock will derail on the larger track, and on relatively sharp radius curves. For modern stock code 83 or 75 is reccommended. Older stock however will derail on the named codes of rail, however it depends on how old the rolling stock is. I would reccomend getting a length of each code, and just test running each of your items of rolling stock on them on the sharpest curve you will use on the layout.
Hope it helps,
Peter
Another fault I have come across with is that the wheels of modern cars have quite thin tyres compared to older varieties and with some tracks that are not accurately made to the correct gauge, wheels can drop down inside the rail heads.
Robert
In my limited experience, yes it can. As can track connector shoes. Also look at track radius – steamys require a greater radius than diesel models….learned that the hard way.
🙂
I had problems with locomotive and rolling stock
Over time rolling get some build up of muck on the wheels then you have to clean it off with a sharp knife
Track alignment and gauge – proper gauge for trucks – make sure the flanges have clearance, if not replace the wheel sets or file the flanges, no need to rip up the track. proper weight of cars, add some weight if necessary. Loose couplers or couplers that are too low. These are the most common causes of derailment. If you have ballast on your track, check to make sure that none of it is interfering or too close to the rail causing the wheel to jump
I ran Ho trains for over 20 years reguardless what code rail I ran I still had lots of derailments during those dayd I never bought train as a set.I always bought the engine and acc. separately.The manufactor name was Fleischmann. Later on I started buying Fleischmann tracks switches etc; everything was the same name brand and still lots of derailments< I got fed up with it so I change scale. I went with G & O guage Trains I've been with G scale now since 1985 and O scale since 1999. with the G scale I might have a derailment once a week running them atlease 35 hrs a week on about the same with the o scale so my problem was not the code of the track but maybe the scale or guage of the trains
The code of a piece of track is the height of the rail in thousandths of an inch (meaning code 83 rail is .083″ high; code 100 rail is .100″ high). The significant difference lies in the physical appearance of the two types of track. Atlas Code 83 track has fine, brown ties whereas Code 100 has slightly thicker black ties. Because of its accuracy (and the color of the ties), Code 83 is more prototypical, and therefore more realistic than Code 100. Code 83 is known as a finer-scale track, and is the choice of discerning modelers I beleive code 100 is more forgiving but there could be many reasons for derailment.I use code 100 and then use paint and chalk to make more realistic and when you put down ballast you will not see the thickness of the tie. Just google weathering HO track videos to see exactly what I am talking about.
I have built layouts with both code 100 and code 83. Code 83, to me. looks much better and I do not have any problems with one over the other when it comes to derailments. I get my eye as close to the track as I can and look for uneven track, kinks, higher rail then the other, bad joiners, gaps, and general smoothness in the flow or route, of the rail. Good track laying is key. If you can’t lay track, it will not matter what code you use. Only my thoughts.
Herb, this is a problem with a lot of different reasons. So lets start by narrowing down some of the possible causes.
1. What country are you located in? What scale are you using (HO, O, N, Z)?
2. Do you have an NMRA standards gauge for your scale?
3. Where do you get derailments? Over turnouts, on curves, tangent track (straight) or what? Does it happen in the same spot? Mark the spot(s) where the derailment occurs.
4. If it happens with engines, what kind are they – diesel, steam. If steam, large engines like 4-8-4 or bigger or smaller ones? Using an NMRA standards gauge check the gauge of the wheel sets to see if they are too narrow or too wide. If they are out of gauge correct them.
5. Now, lets look at the track. Using an NMRA standards gauge check the track width to see if the track gauge is too narrow or too wide. This is especially important around turnouts. If the track is out of gauge, correct the situation.
6. If it is the same car(s) then use the NMRA standards gauge to check the wheel sets on the car(s) to see if the wheels are too far apart or too narrow. If they are out of gauge correct them.
7. Many years ago (like 1960’s or so) European built trains had wheels with large flanges. Using an NMRA standards check the flange depth to see if it is too large for your track. In the USA wheel sets make since 1950’s (or even before) have been made to NMRA standards and will run OK on track of Code 55 or larger (for HO scale). Even the large flanges should run on Code 83 as it is so close in size to Code 100.
8. The area above the ties on the “inside” of the track is very important. Soldered wires (for power) could causes wheel-flanges to ride up and over the track. Any obstruction between the rails can cause problems.
9. Does it happen with the same cars? Using some kind of scale (like a postal meter) weight the car that is derailing – if it does on a curve then – if it is in a long train and the car is light and it is near the front of the train, the weight of the train might pull a light car off the track. In HO scale a 40 foot car should weight almost 4 oz.
10. Car “Glad-Hands” (used for uncoupling via magnets in-between the track) can hang too low and cause derailments especially over turnouts or other obstructions between the rails – like places where automobiles cross over the tracks.
As for the Code of the track – I’ve never encountered a problem caused by the Code of the track – note: I use all NMRA approved wheel sets. The other concern is the weight of the car. Unfortunately too many cars come without enough weight to keep them on the track – especially when backing up a train. The NMRA has standards for car weight based on its length. Ensuring that car-weight follows this standard usually eliminates the cars derailing due to light weight.
I hope this is helpful.
http://www.nmra.org/index-nmra-standards-and-recommended-practices
Many things can cause derailments, most of which have been mentioned previously. The secret is to ensure that all measurements are compatible, e.g. to NMRA Standards. These include track gauge, vertical & horizontal alignment, flange depth, flange thickness, wheel tread width, wheel back-to-back measurement, curve radius, frog/crossing angle, flangeway depth at frogs/crossings/check rails. Quite a list, I’m afraid. Modellers would do best to ensure they find stock and track manufacturers whose measurements fit each others standards. If a new vehicle derails where others do not, it might be worth considering changing the wheelsets, if possible.