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Can I Install Decoders in My Old Locomotives Without Problems?
Club member Ian asks readers:
“I have 14 older HO pre DCC engines and want to convert them over. Simple question is – can I install decoders in these old style locos? What kind of problems should I expect, if any? Also, I would appreciate any further guidance so I don’t stuff things up. Thanks in advance to all who reply.”
23 Responses to Can I Install Decoders in My Old Locomotives Without Problems?
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Well it depends Ian what types are the locomotives, and who made them and what kind of motor they have.If you don’t mind telling me that information I can help you greatly.
Ian, I am currently putting DCC decoders in some of my old Athearn ‘blue box’ locos so yes, it can be done. The primary obstacle is the old motors use more current. Be careful to make sure the frame and motor are electrically isolated. Most manufacturers used the frame as a coductorb You can still do this but only to the decoder, not the motor. Most decoder makers have detailed instructions on their web sites
Hi, hope I can help with this answer.
I have installed and converted 33 old locos and the diesel locos (once you have read the instructions correctly) are relatively easy and all work well,but, I have had problems with older steam locos, predominately with earthing of some of these older steam locos were they stop start due to incorrect earthing or not earthed in the correct spot,,,,,,,,,,
Make sure to clean your wheels on all old locos, so, what I would recommend is to make sure that the earthing on all locos correspond with the instructions on the chips,
I’ve never had any real tutoring on this all I’ve done is google my problem and someone will come up with the answer, so, when in doubt, GOOGLE lol.
I have installed decoders in locos that are 50 years old. Every install has its own unique and interesting problems. Biggest thing is isolation and neat and organized wiring.
Good luck!
Dave
Installing DCC in older locos.
Step 1
Ensure that the loco works properly before you start. With older steam outline locos things might be a bit loose, the actual motor might be a big old clunky Triang or Hornby. Check that it doesn’t draw too much power as this might effect the operation of the chip – might even burn it out! An Amp meter will help determine whether is worthwhile installing the chip.
Step 2
Clean the mechanism thoroughly – moving parts, wheel treads, pick ups, and run the loco again, if this doesn’t lower the draw then a new motor might be prescribed – one of the newer coreless types. They are reasonably cheap.Check the back to back wheel spacing and adjust it if necessary. Out of gauge wheels cause shorts, shorts fry chips. If the loco is really old it might have very deep flanges. If so swap them out for NMRA Code 25 treads.
Step 3
Read how others have done it. BRM, Model Railroader, AMRM all regular magazines run stories on chipping locos. Check out Digitrax and DCC Concepts web pags for manufacturuer’s slant on the problem.
Step4
Install your chip following the manufacturer’s instructions, or if not feeling confident there will be members of local RM clubs and hobby shops that offer this service.
If this sounds like too much faffing around ask yourself “Is this loco an old favourite, do I really love it that much, is it worth the effort?” If the answer is yes to just one of those questions, then, of course it is.
if they have the can style motor you should be ok, but be shure insulate the motor from the frame, and then hard wire it with the decoder, i had no problem with mine.
Can you fit DCC decoders to older locomotives? Yes you can but;
1-Does the locomotive run very well on analogue DC?
2-Is the motor electrically isolated from the chassis?
3-Is there space in the loco or tender to fit a larger size decoder, i.e. not a miniature decoder
4-Do you have access to small coloured wires, flexible 30 AWG or similar
5- Do you have a quality soldering iron with small bit, can you solder neatly?
6- Do you have or can get some small tubular heat shrink 1mm diameter?
If all of the above are positive then go for it. I have done many conversions successfully. Use a good simple decoder with at least 1 amp rating. Then comes the setting up of the decoder especially the Back EMF speed control stability, which is not easy unless you know what you are doing. so I suggest that you fit the TCS T1 or the ESU LockPilot V4 both of which are self tuning.
So go ahead and convert one loco and have fun. Then with time do the rest.
Colin TT
Mr. Colin,
Where do you buy 1mm shrink wrap?
Bob Williams
Shrink wrap should be available at your local electronic hardware shop, one that supplies small wires and cable, transistors, resistors and the like. Electrical wholesalers may also stock it bur usually only for the larger sizes. Manufacturers are HellerMann, try googling Heatshrink and you should get to a local supplier.
If you are near Johannesburg then go to GT Electronics in the Towers Building next to the East Rand Mall.
I have installed over 100 DCC/Sound decoders from several sources in older DC locomotives including a few with frame motors.
I have several applications on You Tube under choochoo3985. I used other You Tube video’s to get me into DCC and between those and the book I have refined the process and used optional speakers and LED lighting. I don’t think there is a DC locomotive that cannot be converted. Good luck. Ted
You can add DCC to just about anything, once you [electrically] isolate the motor from the frame. That usually isn’t too difficult.
Check what current the old loco REALLY draws before selecting the decoder. Providing it works properly on DC it should run properly on DCC. Wiring is simple enough if you can wield a soldering iron. There of lots of guidance notes for popular locks on the net but providing you have space for a decoder it really is pretty easy to work out for any loco. Remove any existing capacitor or resistor but keep them in case you ever want to revert to DC.
Hello
Some of the older engines are a pain to isolate the track power from the motor, that is the biggest problem outside of all of the wiring soldering and finding room to install the decoder speaker etc.
I am an Authorized Dealer with TCS. I sell and install all of their products.I also do weathering, repairs, DCC and LED light installs and layouts.
John
Hi Ian
The answers above all contain very good tips that I follow as well and I have converted many locos including some brass. As such yes each one is unique and becomes unique depending if you want just that the model runs or add lighting or graduate to sound installation. On sound space is the biggest challenge.
What has not been mentioned here is that in the community I saw that there are also people who operate Märklin AC units. Märklin has a different then DCC color coding system, needs to get the electromechanical directional switch removed and requires to change the motor coil with a permanent magnet.
also there are some DC locomotives in the early days of the Fleischmann production that require a special treatment to the Motor shield to make the motor DCC ready. So here I would recommend to ask a specialist for help or also Google that.
Being part of a train club opens many doors to knowledge on the project you are embarking on.
My conclusion would be 100% of all engines can be converted but some are so difficult or non spacious that it is almost not worth the effort.
The answer is generally, “Yes,” but it might not be easy. You will need to change the motor and completely isolate it electronically from the frame. You will also need to find room for the controller and any other functions, such as sound and lighting, you are planning to add. I routinely convert Varney Docksides to DCC with sound and lighting, but it is a very tedious task because there is not a lot of room to play with. Northwest Short Line and Daniel Bush (Yardbird Trains) both sell motors and accessories that can be used. When done well, the results are quite impressive. I had a converted Dockside at a show recently, and people were very interested in watching and hearing it chug around the layout. Some people were initially very skeptical that it could be done, but the proof was right there in front of them. Give it a try. If you do a good job, you will find the result very satisfying.
All the advice is good, you can’t go wrong. If you have limited space for a decoder I can recommend the new range from Zen decoders. They are very small, have back EMF and stay alive and are very reasonably priced.
Go for it Install those Dcc Chips. If they are a cheap engine they still perform as well but under better control than old DC. Eliminate the grounded motors on the frame and disconnect the grounded head light on old Athearn engines. You want everything to go through the DCC Chip first with power and then out and back to the motors lights and speakers. No shortcuts back to the frame for grounds As everyone says isolate those motors and lights and DCC will work on all of them. Kato engines will need some rewiring as some of them have the motors in the trucks. Once going the the speeds can be adjusted with the CV’s (not always adjustable to match other brands but will come close. I am getting ready to install DCC in Thomas the Tank engine and instead of a slow being fast in DC I will be able to make him creep and actually see his eyes move without them blurring. Cheep engines will still work no better than they did on DC but you will have better control. Yes go for it. from Newman
I read the comments and their all good information, but I don’t recall anything about having to alter the chassis or bodies to accommodate the decoder, I have found that in some cases it is necessary in order to fit the decoder (Love that Dermel } . Also N scale decoders work well with Ho locos
The age of the locomotive usually doesn’t factor into whether it can be converted to DCC, but older locos usually don’t have the motor isolated from the frame, so that needs to be done beforehand. On most diesel models that isn’t difficult to do, it’s a bit more complicated with steam engines. I have some locomotives that are more than 40 years old that I’ve converted to DCC, and usually the biggest challenge is finding room inside the shell for the decoder and wires.
A good resource is the Train Control Systems website, which illustrates many dozens of step-by-step installations in all manner of locomotives, some of which are very old. Granted, the installations are for TCS decoders, but the same procedures can be used for any manufacturer’s decoders.
yes you can . i have just done a brass u50 and it has two motors in it its motors are mounted to the frame of the unit but its not the whole motor you have to isolate its the motor brushes. that feed the motor coils. the body of the motor is just a magnet . on old blue box units you just have to insulate the lower motor clip that picks up dc power from the frame of the unit and disconnect the upper clip. also learn something about led or lamps to replace the ones in the unit.i have done alot of units from bluebox to kato and more even put decoders in dummys with sound and bult some sound cars even a tank car with sound in it .all dcc
note make sure you check the amp draw at stall before you put decoders in most wont draw more then a 1 amp if you use n scale and you motor draws 1 amp it will fry the chip on old blue box units most n scale decoders only rated at 3/4 amp this is why use ho only now i have used n scale in ho in some small switchers but stall amps was low on them due to can motors and newer units. most newer one use can motors pull less amps and you can mu more of them without overloading you dcc system. not that i have any amp shortage have 20 amp to work with.
you asked were to get heat shrink you can get it at any supply of elect. coponets are radio shack
Hi, I have attempted to convert a 1980s Hornby HST to DCC. I have wired in brand new a Bachman Railcom basic decoder and checked the Motor is inulated from the chassis. I put it on my brand new Dynamis Ultima set, and the decoder is not recognised. On the programming track, the loco will move slighly fwd and back, but then report a read/write error. Im a little lost, espcially as I can’t rule out dynamis, loco or encoder individually. Im getting 16volts to the decoder harness, but no encoder activity. Has anyone ideas, where i should start investigating?