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Using Telephone Wire For Wiring?
Phillip asks readers:
“I am thinking of making an N scale layout and I have stacks of telephone wire, and I was wondering if telephone wire would be okay for wiring up N scale layouts. Thinking of a U shape layout about 3m x 2.26m x 0.7m in the garden shed. As the motors are a lot smaller than ones in HO scale, there would not be a lot of electricity going through. Can any advise if telephone wire will be okay?”
21 Responses to Using Telephone Wire For Wiring?
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The smallest you should use for all your connections should be 16 or 18gauge and dcc buss wires should be 14 gauge. Telephone wire is probably 22 gauge which is probably to small
Telephone wire is very high quality copper. I use it on my 4 ft by 8 ft layout and find no voltage drop at all. Of course, I’m using a large buss line (I forget the gauge), and my drops to the track are only a couple feet long at the most, and spaced about every 3 feet. I firmly believe you’ll have no problem if you use a good-sized buss.
I forgot to add…my layout is N-scale.
Telephone Wire is a bad decision because it is not made of copper.
It has poor conductivity.
SOME telephone wire is not copper, some is. I have used about 70 ft. of CAT-5 on my 12×8 HO (DC) layout to connect the 17 tortoise switch motors as they have 8 connectors. I found out by buying CAT-5 that was NOT copper. MOST CAT-5 used for networking IS copper. But, you need to verify before buying.
Jim is correct, not only for DCC but regular DC. The smallest I use for track power is 18 ga. stranded copper.
I have worked, and still work, in the Telco industry for the last 45 years. Most telephone wire is of good quality copper. It has to be because we don’t want to use any more than is necessary. Most common sizes (in metric on my side of the world) are 0.4mm, 0.5mm or 0.63mm single core. This equates to around 26, 24 and 22awg. I have used it lots on my model (and heaps of other uses as well).
If you use the 0.4mm then plan to use lots of droppers, and slightly less for the 0.5mm. The 0.63 is good for 5 amps so OK for short busses but being single strand is a little stiffer to handle. My choice for Buss is larger multi-strand. The only requirement is that choosing the correct version of suitcase connector. Some don’t like multicore main with single core tee. The #905’s are pretty good.
I have a very large HO scale layout. I use a 14 gauge buss wire and I use the telephone wire for my drops. I drop one set for every 3 ft length of track. Their is sometimes 3 to 4 friends running trains at the same time. Never yet had a problem. Si if it works with HO scale it should also work with N scale. Hope this helps.
When I was in high school many years ago, my brother and I found a good length of telephone cable dropped after a lines crew left our neighbourhood. We had a model railway (HO) about 12×18 and used that telephone wire exclusively – track feeders, turnout controls, panel toggle switch wiring, building lighting, for everything. We never had problems. It’s high quality, easy to use, and wonderfully colour coded.
Lan I did the same thing as I was building my earlier layouts but they were the size you are talking about. But when getting into a full size basement or garage layout there was power loss. The buss wires with the short wire drops as I call them takes care of all that. I seen power loss where engines in standard power would slow to a creep and if loaded down might even stop on some of the farther away tracks. Even where there were several switches involved, Even powered from both ends of that line the rail in the middle of that line of switches power drop was enough to practically stop the train. This happened in both Lionel and HO scale. Buss wires are the way to go now and it is easy to track your wires to follow that rail. It simplifies the wiring and whether you go to DCC or stay with DC you are assured of good steady power Newman Atkinson
Newman, I agree about the potential power loss and for any runs longer than 3 m or so, it would be a concern, particularly in a full basement or garage layout. I now use solid household wiring as the bus cable and have some circuits as long as 15m. The original question was for a small layout and I think there would be no problem for the short distances he described.
My Buss wires I use 16 gauge trailer wire for the main part of the layout and so far so good and I can get them in different colors to follow a color code. I am planning to link up some older modules in the second bay when I have some of the guys over running to give me the extra trackage. I plan to increase the main run of buss wires to that area to a 14 gauge trailer wire. and throughout the modules as these will be some distance from the power supply. Trailer wire has been sufficient so far for me Menards carries both 16 and 14 gauge in different colors.
from Newman Atkinson
I have been an N-scaler for over 40 years, and have always used telco wire. It is high quality copper. I also use it with my dcc system using 14 gage feeder wire. Never had any issues at all.
Good luck and good railroading
Would using multiple stands of Telephone wire for main lines not compensate for the small gauge?
I find it funny that tele people say it is High Quality Copper and RAC1938 says it is not copper at all.
Philip,
Go ahead and use the telephone cable. I use it on my 40 ft long 3mm / ft scale layout for just about everything requiring 12vdc. None of the complex and expensive “bells and whistles” of DCC is allowed in my train room. I am still using DC control. Each station control panel is a row of DPDT toggle switches representing the levers in the signal box.One side of each switch controls power to a specific bit of track and the other half of the switch controls signals or Tortoise turnout motors Single strand telephone wire is easy to use for these tasks and is conveniently and very usefully colour coded. Nowhere on the layout are there any circuits that requires more than 12vdc x 2 amps so telephone wire is perfectly suitable for my needs.
I do not rely on rail joiners to conduct power from one rail to the next. Every piece of rail has a dropper to the appropriate feed wire from the control panel.
One important tip is to take care when removing the wire’s insulation prior to making a soldered joint. Do not nick the wire with a knife blade and create a weak spot that sooner or later will snap off. I frequently bring the hot tip of a soldering iron close to the end of the wire and the plastic insulation just melts away. Don’t inhale these fumes.
Wiring in not difficult. Just concentrate on one wire at a time. Check that it joins up to the required places and that you have made a sound soldered joint at each end. Then proceed to the next piece of wire. The dreaded voltage drop that plagues many layouts can frequently be traced to bad soldered joints and / or iffy rail joiners.
Take care and have fun.
I have a 2 room n scale layout, dual loop and use a grand total of 3 feeder wires between the track and a Digitrax Zephyr. I use cat 5 and cat 3 cable. 4 pair, color coded. Before I knew what I was doing, I ran telephone cable on a standard 120 volt 15a. It never fried, but I only used it for a lamp. Lol. So, ya. Telephone cable will work perfectly for a layout. Also, N scale and H0 scale both have the same sized motors (electrically speaking) 1 amp, 1.5 peak decoder ratings on both scales.
I had a 4X8 HO layout in the 1970’s , worked for Telco. Always used 2 pair JK wire 22 ga. Always worked fine , ran all my switching, and street lights. When I restarted my layout Technology had moved leaps and bounds, now use 4 pair wire CAT 3 and CAT 5 . Works great !
Danny Marso, Warwick, Rhode Island
I am a communications technician and have been working with telephone cables for over forty years. With your layout l would recommend using the telephone wire for your droppers and a multi-strand type cable for the main bus. This would give you a very reliable result.
Enjoy the build and lets us know how it all works out.
I work for a phone co. 35 years-(century telephone) before it became century link -out side plant installing phones and repair ———I model in 3/16″ hi rail—use dcc——use 12 gauge wire for buss—droppers 18 gauge—-code 125 rail—-the wire application depends what your hooking up—what wattage you need—length ect.—I use a lot of 22 gauge telephone wire——Andrew Manser has good comments——–
The flexible phone wire is entirely useless for power distribution on a model railway , the wire cross section is minute
However I have used the sheathed 4 core telephone wire , as in UK 4 wires, Red Green Black White for DC power for 40 odd years. It is not ideal as it necks off at connectors if flexed, but I get minimal voltage drop in over 30 feet of wire.
I would not use it for DCC where the amperage is higher except as one of series of multiple droppers and only then if I had nothing better..
Yes you can use Phone wire for a smaller layout, But just as other scales go the farther you go from the power supply there is power lose. Dave was asking about jumper wires fro a single buss in the latest question and I explained to him about the buss wiring and wire drops. So check out my comments to him also. I don’t run much N scale but everything applies and as far as I know the clubs who run buss feeds from module to module are running at least a 16 gauge trailer wire as a Buss wire. That phone wire will work fine for wire drops from the rail to the Buss. If you are connecting up to the rails regularly then you are not traveling long distance on the phone wire. Larger scales such as Lionel and G scale might need larger wire drops. See my explanation on Jumper wires that Dave was asking about from Newman Atkinson
Philip
You can use any type of wire, telephone, copper, aluminium, house hold, even fencing wire if you like but the catch is: – the number of locomotives you run at one time on the same track. eg. If you run DCC over a long distance ( >10 meters) it is very important to use thick (18 – 12g) wire because ten sound equipped dcc locos on the same track ( n or ho scale) may absorb up to 8 – 10 amperes at full blast ! On analog, nomally only one loco uses the track. As you already have stacks of telephone wire – use it and if you notice a lack of power with your locos – double or even tipple the runs of wire. Conventional switch point motors may draw more amperes than the telephone wire can handle but normally it is safe practice to use capacitor discharge units on switch motors or “double the run”